Raph Koster has his monthly break down of website statistics.
In the search terms section one of the search phrases that lead to Raph's site was "heartless blog" to which Raph replied "Sniff. Meanie."
So I must conclude that Raph is paying Google to steal my hits.
Friday, March 03, 2006
Thursday, March 02, 2006
Mob Spawning and Immersion
Darniaq has a good post up entitled "Mob Spawning and Immersion".(bad link removed) I put some actual thought into a response that is shared below. Enjoy!
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Encounters in MMORPGs are for the most part a small puzzle. It reminds me of the arguments of the "dumb" enemies in the "brilliant" Metal Gear series for consoles. The guards are completely stupid, can't see 10 feet in front of them, and fall for the dumbest tricks in the book (moving box anyone). The game has always been about a complex visual puzzle that you complete via an advanced tool also know as Snake. The story is dramatic and driven by movie like plots, but the gameplay will never be "movielike". Still the MG games are still IMMERSIVE! Read on to find out why.
Back to MMORPGs where you have dungeons ala Everquest 1 where it was more about being in the right places at the right time to "finish" the dungeon. You had to camp out the "boss" which lead to fair bit of "PvP" group/guild social dynamics.
WoW dungeons play the "everything is setup when you enter". You have to start at the beginning of the puzzle and get to the end for the "cheese". While the dungeons all aren't linear there is definite "fast" and "better" ways to do them... the difference between a veteran sodoku and a novice. After some experience you can do them relatively fast and move on to the next "harder" set.
A random encounter in the outdoors in WoW or EQ though is a puzzle in itself also. There is defined rules that you have to follow. Is it linked? Is the target out of "call for help range of others"? Is this something I can take? Then add in a group. Pull this... CC this... kill this... offtank that... etc.
So what we have is a bunch of puzzles with tools to complete them. How can you make a puzzle immersive? Variables! The more you toss into the puzzle the more the player has to manage. The more they have to manage the less they have to think about where or what this monster is doing in front of them.
By having monsters that are just there... standing like numb nuts without a purpose removes a lot of variables. Players have few "unknowns" because they can see what is going to happen before they pull. While you need a certain level of this to maintain a game aspect you don't need a lot of it. Players need to know they can go kill a few Orcs without having 1,000 Orcs charging out of the fortress and hunting them down.
Putting unknowns into the fight makes it a better experience IMHO. Instead of having a room with pirates just standing there waiting to be pulled you could have a trigger that has a half dozen more pirates drop in from a hidden upper ledge.
But lets try to get away from triggered events because that is another big block towards immersion. Well they won't attack me here, but I know if I move another foot they will start coming. This is essentially how most FPS games operate. As you advance to a new "room" (throwback to MUDs baby) you trigger the next set of baddies to fight. Now you could have a Doom 3 like experience (few variables) or a Half Life 2 experience (lots of variables), but still its setup on triggered events. Great for advancing story plots... bad for immersive multiplayer.
Randomness in encounters is key. Another key is removing static spawns. Dynamic spawning will be the future and Vanguard shows some promise of this in their "NPCs will fight each other". Its a method seen in WoW a little and some other games where a wolf chases a rabbit, but nothing on a large scale.
I am talking about something like the once planned Strongholds in Star Wars Galaxies. Structures that would "spawn" in the world and the NPCs would start building them up. If players did nothing about them then they kept growing until the players would have to deal with them. Sadly it never happened.
You can take that concept and work a bit with it having multiple factions of NPCs building. Each faction reacts differently to each other. So a Jawa Faction Stronghold would war with a Tusken Raider Stronghold that has grown to large right next door. Then from these strongholds you start spawning "layers". All NPCs would actually appear from a building until it was destroyed so in a way you have a visual key of where they are coming from. Don't want more Jawa Sandcrawlers spawning? Distract the Jawa Guards and send a crack team in to destroy the Sandcrawler factory. Every layer offers easier to defeat "groups" that are dispatched out like scouting teams, harvesting groups, trading groups, social groups (meant to give quests to players), etc. As you gain more layers the inner layers grow in difficulty.
Now players can go in and destroy it, perform diplomacy, trade, and all sorts of things. You can build up faction to get into a stronghold here or there while risking out right war with others. This is really all inspired by Will Wright's upcoming Spore (which will be one of; if not the best game ever). The whole game operates in this degree somehow, but much more advanced. A simpler system will come to an MMORPG soon enough.
I don't think "spawning" will ever die because after all players need something to kill and nothing breaks FUN worse than having nothing to kill. There is still ideas out there to make it much more immersive. I just provided one I've built from enjoying games and game design ideas I've experienced. There are much smarter people in actual positions to achieve such things in a game.
Update: 15 Nov, 2009 - Edited spelling, applied label, and removed broken link.
----
Encounters in MMORPGs are for the most part a small puzzle. It reminds me of the arguments of the "dumb" enemies in the "brilliant" Metal Gear series for consoles. The guards are completely stupid, can't see 10 feet in front of them, and fall for the dumbest tricks in the book (moving box anyone). The game has always been about a complex visual puzzle that you complete via an advanced tool also know as Snake. The story is dramatic and driven by movie like plots, but the gameplay will never be "movielike". Still the MG games are still IMMERSIVE! Read on to find out why.
Back to MMORPGs where you have dungeons ala Everquest 1 where it was more about being in the right places at the right time to "finish" the dungeon. You had to camp out the "boss" which lead to fair bit of "PvP" group/guild social dynamics.
WoW dungeons play the "everything is setup when you enter". You have to start at the beginning of the puzzle and get to the end for the "cheese". While the dungeons all aren't linear there is definite "fast" and "better" ways to do them... the difference between a veteran sodoku and a novice. After some experience you can do them relatively fast and move on to the next "harder" set.
A random encounter in the outdoors in WoW or EQ though is a puzzle in itself also. There is defined rules that you have to follow. Is it linked? Is the target out of "call for help range of others"? Is this something I can take? Then add in a group. Pull this... CC this... kill this... offtank that... etc.
So what we have is a bunch of puzzles with tools to complete them. How can you make a puzzle immersive? Variables! The more you toss into the puzzle the more the player has to manage. The more they have to manage the less they have to think about where or what this monster is doing in front of them.
By having monsters that are just there... standing like numb nuts without a purpose removes a lot of variables. Players have few "unknowns" because they can see what is going to happen before they pull. While you need a certain level of this to maintain a game aspect you don't need a lot of it. Players need to know they can go kill a few Orcs without having 1,000 Orcs charging out of the fortress and hunting them down.
Putting unknowns into the fight makes it a better experience IMHO. Instead of having a room with pirates just standing there waiting to be pulled you could have a trigger that has a half dozen more pirates drop in from a hidden upper ledge.
But lets try to get away from triggered events because that is another big block towards immersion. Well they won't attack me here, but I know if I move another foot they will start coming. This is essentially how most FPS games operate. As you advance to a new "room" (throwback to MUDs baby) you trigger the next set of baddies to fight. Now you could have a Doom 3 like experience (few variables) or a Half Life 2 experience (lots of variables), but still its setup on triggered events. Great for advancing story plots... bad for immersive multiplayer.
Randomness in encounters is key. Another key is removing static spawns. Dynamic spawning will be the future and Vanguard shows some promise of this in their "NPCs will fight each other". Its a method seen in WoW a little and some other games where a wolf chases a rabbit, but nothing on a large scale.
I am talking about something like the once planned Strongholds in Star Wars Galaxies. Structures that would "spawn" in the world and the NPCs would start building them up. If players did nothing about them then they kept growing until the players would have to deal with them. Sadly it never happened.
You can take that concept and work a bit with it having multiple factions of NPCs building. Each faction reacts differently to each other. So a Jawa Faction Stronghold would war with a Tusken Raider Stronghold that has grown to large right next door. Then from these strongholds you start spawning "layers". All NPCs would actually appear from a building until it was destroyed so in a way you have a visual key of where they are coming from. Don't want more Jawa Sandcrawlers spawning? Distract the Jawa Guards and send a crack team in to destroy the Sandcrawler factory. Every layer offers easier to defeat "groups" that are dispatched out like scouting teams, harvesting groups, trading groups, social groups (meant to give quests to players), etc. As you gain more layers the inner layers grow in difficulty.
Now players can go in and destroy it, perform diplomacy, trade, and all sorts of things. You can build up faction to get into a stronghold here or there while risking out right war with others. This is really all inspired by Will Wright's upcoming Spore (which will be one of; if not the best game ever). The whole game operates in this degree somehow, but much more advanced. A simpler system will come to an MMORPG soon enough.
I don't think "spawning" will ever die because after all players need something to kill and nothing breaks FUN worse than having nothing to kill. There is still ideas out there to make it much more immersive. I just provided one I've built from enjoying games and game design ideas I've experienced. There are much smarter people in actual positions to achieve such things in a game.
Update: 15 Nov, 2009 - Edited spelling, applied label, and removed broken link.
Tuesday, February 28, 2006
Dungeons and Dragons ... level 10's before launch.
Turbine has allowed people who pre-ordered Dungeons and Dragons Online to have an early start. So, it was bound to happen that a player was going to flip on hardcore mode and hit the max level (10) relatively fast. The problem is that such a player has done so; five days before the game has landed on store shelves!
The post on the DDO forums has a lot of points between the casual players and this single hardcore level 10. The level 10 claims he was figuring out if there was a ton of level 10 content to be consumed and he was terribly wrong because there is ZERO level 10 content. The more casual crowd is chanting "Thats what you get for rushing." I don't know which side is more sad in this argument because they are both horribly mistaken about DDO being a viable MMORPG.
Community member Karos says it best on page 4 of the thread...
It is true that the number of levels doesn't matter. Level 10 as max does not have to be a short journey. Turbine proclaimed how their was going to be so many mini step ups as you level that you will have content for months on end before running out of content. Turbine vastly underestimated what amount of content they did have because its not even remotely close to being viable to support this game.
I truly feel sorry for the idiots in that thread posting that Turbine will have a patch out within a few weeks with tons of content. It just doesn't work like that. They will be able to add a couple top end quests at most and that's if they go for quality. They could squeeze out a few more, but they are going to be very unfinished experiences. The majority of early patching will be in fixing technical bugs and game bugs... not content delivery.
Here are the points I dug out of the thread:
1. The content doesn't change. It's the same the first time you play and then is just a repeat. Turbine didn't even bother to have the traps or secret doors change locations.
2. The speed of leveling is not proportionate to the amount of content available. It is being compared to leveling to 20 in WoW, which took casual people about a month to do and the hardcore hitting 20 after a day. Difference being, WoW has different 1-20 content for almost every race.
3. There is ZERO level 10 end game content available. Once you hit level 10 it is a reroll and restart, farm the dungeons you've already completed, or wait for the next content patch which is X number of weeks away.
Final Thoughts
DDO is in trouble and matter of fact so is Turbine.
Update: 1 Sept, 2009 - Edited post, applied label.
The post on the DDO forums has a lot of points between the casual players and this single hardcore level 10. The level 10 claims he was figuring out if there was a ton of level 10 content to be consumed and he was terribly wrong because there is ZERO level 10 content. The more casual crowd is chanting "Thats what you get for rushing." I don't know which side is more sad in this argument because they are both horribly mistaken about DDO being a viable MMORPG.
Community member Karos says it best on page 4 of the thread...
"Ok, from reading this thread I get the impression that a lot of people feel it is fine for a game like this to end, 'the journey is everything', so to speak. Comparing this game to a non-subscription based rpg is comparing apples to oranges, as this game lives and dies by how many people is can keep playing.That is a very well stated point of view that I have to agree with. The casual gamers out there are going to be hitting 10 within a month or two months time and they are quickly going to come to the same conclusion as the hardcore. The argument that Turbine is going to continuously add content as a viable way to maintain the game is utter bull crap. They've had years to build this games content (remember they already had the engine built) and they can't make more than a few days worth of leveling content?
Many people when they play a console rpg play it through slowly and completely, never to look at it again except in nostolgia. Now ask yourself if you would be willing to pay a monthly fee while that game is sitting on the shelf doing nothing. If enough people can honoestly say yes to that question, then this game has a future, but if not it will lose subscribers and with no bottom line it will go the way of AC2, but much quicker.
Endgame content is something every online game must eventually have to keep that subscriber. The form that content takes though can be extremely differentiated but it will all boil down to the same principal. How do you keep people busy and continuing to play after they reach the max level allowed? This question may seem moot, but eventually every player can reach that level if they continue to progress. You may think that someone reaching the end now is a problem, but it is a symptom of a much bigger problem.
Right now things are looking good and we can hope for fast new content patches. Let me finish with a different question. If every time you got together with friends for a PnP D&D game and and your DM asked you to roll up new chars and placed you in exactly the same campaign to be played out exactly the same way every single game, how long before you found yourself a new DM?"
It is true that the number of levels doesn't matter. Level 10 as max does not have to be a short journey. Turbine proclaimed how their was going to be so many mini step ups as you level that you will have content for months on end before running out of content. Turbine vastly underestimated what amount of content they did have because its not even remotely close to being viable to support this game.
I truly feel sorry for the idiots in that thread posting that Turbine will have a patch out within a few weeks with tons of content. It just doesn't work like that. They will be able to add a couple top end quests at most and that's if they go for quality. They could squeeze out a few more, but they are going to be very unfinished experiences. The majority of early patching will be in fixing technical bugs and game bugs... not content delivery.
Here are the points I dug out of the thread:
1. The content doesn't change. It's the same the first time you play and then is just a repeat. Turbine didn't even bother to have the traps or secret doors change locations.
2. The speed of leveling is not proportionate to the amount of content available. It is being compared to leveling to 20 in WoW, which took casual people about a month to do and the hardcore hitting 20 after a day. Difference being, WoW has different 1-20 content for almost every race.
3. There is ZERO level 10 end game content available. Once you hit level 10 it is a reroll and restart, farm the dungeons you've already completed, or wait for the next content patch which is X number of weeks away.
Final Thoughts
DDO is in trouble and matter of fact so is Turbine.
Update: 1 Sept, 2009 - Edited post, applied label.
Sunday, February 26, 2006
Time
I've come to realize that I just don't have time to do things that I want anymore. I have too many things that need to be done! Fortunately all things that I need to get done are worth more than anything in the end, but still having little to no time to pursue my hobbies is a big downer. But before I get into solutions I will get into what I'm so busy with.
1. I've purchased a house.
2. I've began planning my wedding.
3. I'm preparing to move within the next few months.
4. In a few months I will be out of the active military.
5. I'm beginning research into what school I will attend after I am out of the active military.
Now, I normally like to keep real life out of my blog, but these changes will play greatly into my gaming future and the reason I am about to present some solutions to keep my gaming addiction fed.
Solution 1 - EVE Online. Since I am already playing it and skill training requires minimal interaction I can continue. This is a good idea, but as I begin to spend more time away from my current house I will not have a PC to access the net with for weeks at a time. So EVE Online and MMORPGs in general are going to be tough.
Solution 2 - Finally getting a Nintendo DS as I've been wanting to do. I gave one to my fiance as a birthday present and she absolutely loves it. I have a crack list of games to get: Mario Kart DS, Mario Bros Partners in Time, and soon to be released Metroid Prime Hunters plus the new untitled Mario DS title.
Also I would get a wireless USB adapter to plug into my PC for some online play for Mario Kart DS. Even though I will be without a net connected PC for weeks at a time there should be plenty of titles to keep me busy and any gameboy is king of portability.
Solution 3 - Give up gami.... blah I can't finish typing that. Haha...
Peace out!
1. I've purchased a house.
2. I've began planning my wedding.
3. I'm preparing to move within the next few months.
4. In a few months I will be out of the active military.
5. I'm beginning research into what school I will attend after I am out of the active military.
Now, I normally like to keep real life out of my blog, but these changes will play greatly into my gaming future and the reason I am about to present some solutions to keep my gaming addiction fed.
Solution 1 - EVE Online. Since I am already playing it and skill training requires minimal interaction I can continue. This is a good idea, but as I begin to spend more time away from my current house I will not have a PC to access the net with for weeks at a time. So EVE Online and MMORPGs in general are going to be tough.
Solution 2 - Finally getting a Nintendo DS as I've been wanting to do. I gave one to my fiance as a birthday present and she absolutely loves it. I have a crack list of games to get: Mario Kart DS, Mario Bros Partners in Time, and soon to be released Metroid Prime Hunters plus the new untitled Mario DS title.
Also I would get a wireless USB adapter to plug into my PC for some online play for Mario Kart DS. Even though I will be without a net connected PC for weeks at a time there should be plenty of titles to keep me busy and any gameboy is king of portability.
Solution 3 - Give up gami.... blah I can't finish typing that. Haha...
Peace out!
Thursday, February 23, 2006
Out for the weekend... err my weekend
I'll be gone until Saturday evening which just so happens to be my "weekend". Next month I'll be switching to Sunday and Mondays off instead of Friday and Saturday. Anyways I will be out of town.
My fiance and I have bought a house after much research so I will be up there checking it out. Good luck in all your gaming... whether its World of Warcraft, EVE Online, Battlefield 2, Everquest 2, Star Wars Galaxies, Dark Ages of Camelot, Anarachy Online, Shadowbane, Asherons Call, Dungeons and Dragons Online, etc. Think I named enough?
Update: 29 Nov, 2009 - Edited post and applied labels.
My fiance and I have bought a house after much research so I will be up there checking it out. Good luck in all your gaming... whether its World of Warcraft, EVE Online, Battlefield 2, Everquest 2, Star Wars Galaxies, Dark Ages of Camelot, Anarachy Online, Shadowbane, Asherons Call, Dungeons and Dragons Online, etc. Think I named enough?
Update: 29 Nov, 2009 - Edited post and applied labels.
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